catybarra
Fri Mar-16-07 09:08 AM
Member since Jul 18th 2005
499 posts
#264251, "Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc"
Since my post was pulled (waiting to hear why) I decided that I would just make it a separate post.
People are way too sensitive about this topic, and many end up bashing those who have "spontaneous" triplets. Being one that does, let me explain from out point of view (since it's been explained by fertility many times.)
Natuaral: Most (and I know not all) people say natural in the terms of how they were conceived. Not the babies themselves. I don't consider that they are natural, and fertility babies aren't. I consider them to be natural in the way they were conceived. I had sex and ended up with three. I am one of the ones that are blessed without the emotional roller coaster I know a lot of people go through. So if I were to mention that mine were natural, and that's how many people state it to me, then I mean yes they are natural. I didn't have any interventions to help me have my children.
Spontaneous: Means that they happened on their own. Another word for natural conception, in my mind. I use this term on this board and to other triplet moms, as I try to be sensitive to how others feel.
IVF or other fertility: You still have natural children, but yours were conceived with medical help. That's wonderful! I am thrilled that couples can still have children even with fertility problems! Be proud.
However, please stop jumping on those people who have "natural" or "sponaneously" conceived triplets. My problem before was that someone mentioned that they could have left off the part where a poster said that their triplets were spontaneous or natural because it had nothing to do with their question. The person was introducing their triplets. That was all that comment was for. No one has a right to tell someone that they shouldn't post that. It wasn't mean, rude, etc.
I will never understand the plight of those who fight with fertility (although saw a great video someone made that helps on someone's blog), but please understand that those of us who conceived our triplets, without medical intervention, shouldn't be made to feel ashamed of our situation either.
I have no ill will towards any of the moms. I don't hold a personal grudge if someone made these comments. I just want it to be known that it's upsetting to see these comments made.
Have a good day!
Cathy
Come visit us at http://www.leighaandthetriplets.blogspot.com/
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Replies to this topic
RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc, jonib, Mar 16th 2007, #1
RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc, catybarra, Mar 16th 2007, #6
RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc, VonWasden, Mar 16th 2007, #2
RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc, catybarra, Mar 16th 2007, #5
RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc, VballPlayer, Mar 16th 2007, #3
RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc, bsebllmom9, Mar 16th 2007, #4
RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc, catybarra, Mar 16th 2007, #8
RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc, bsebllmom9, Mar 16th 2007, #9
RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc, jonib, Mar 16th 2007, #7
RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc, kylamel, Mar 16th 2007, #10
ORGANIC, Tracey, Mar 16th 2007, #22
RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc, DebM, Mar 16th 2007, #11
RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc, JesTrips, Mar 16th 2007, #14
RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc, Mom2aej, Mar 16th 2007, #18
RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc, sweetboyz, Mar 16th 2007, #20
RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc, DebM, Mar 16th 2007, #30
RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc, AngelP, Mar 16th 2007, #23
RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc, LRB, Mar 16th 2007, #12
RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc, Laurene, Mar 16th 2007, #13
RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc, azwallace, Mar 16th 2007, #16
RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc, SuzieQ, Mar 16th 2007, #21
RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc, DebM, Mar 16th 2007, #33
RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc, Mom2aej, Mar 16th 2007, #15
RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc, kylamel, Mar 16th 2007, #17
RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc, VballPlayer, Mar 16th 2007, #19
RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc, madmolly, Mar 16th 2007, #27
RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc, JesTrips, Mar 16th 2007, #29
RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc, madmolly, Mar 16th 2007, #31
RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc, JesTrips, Mar 16th 2007, #34
RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc, VballPlayer, Mar 16th 2007, #46
RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc, MSTAR, Mar 16th 2007, #24
RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc, DebM, Mar 16th 2007, #39
RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc, kkc1025, Mar 16th 2007, #25
RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc, boomom, Mar 16th 2007, #26
RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc, bsebllmom9, Mar 16th 2007, #32
RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc, julie123, Mar 16th 2007, #28
RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc, naynay, Mar 16th 2007, #36
RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc, naynay, Mar 16th 2007, #38
RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc, JesTrips, Mar 16th 2007, #41
RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc, jonib, Mar 16th 2007, #35
RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc, madmolly, Mar 16th 2007, #37
RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc, naynay, Mar 16th 2007, #40
RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc, foreveramom, Mar 16th 2007, #42
RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc, JesTrips, Mar 16th 2007, #43
RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc, boomom, Mar 16th 2007, #44
RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc, julie123, Mar 16th 2007, #47
RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc, gkm15099, Mar 16th 2007, #45
jonib
Fri Mar-16-07 09:20 AM
Member since Oct 11th 2005
181 posts
#264258, "RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc"
In response to Reply # 0
guess I missed your pulled post...were you yelling, cussing and speaking in all caps?? I think that's why some get pulled though not completely sure...
Jonib
mom to
Abby
Andy
Caroline
33 weeks 11/20/05
Rhett 9
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catybarra
Fri Mar-16-07 09:28 AM
Member since Jul 18th 2005
499 posts
#264264, "RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc"
In response to Reply # 1
No, the caps weren't me. I didn't yell, lol. That was the OP
Cathy
Come visit us at http://www.leighaandthetriplets.blogspot.com/
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VonWasden
Fri Mar-16-07 09:20 AM
Member since Jul 18th 2005
1954 posts
#264259, "RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc"
In response to Reply # 0
Cathy,
I think your post in well thought out and worded and I personally don't have an issue with the term "natural" when refering to how someone else's children were conceived. However, please be aware the reason some are so rigid on this stance is because they have had people say to them that their children are not natural, meaning non-human because of their conception. It implies by many that our children are somehow inferior or defective, or that we are. And to be honest, isn't it always better to speak in terms that do not offend others, the terms black versus African-Americans (or even worse derogatory terms)comes to mind.
Kim
Nate, Nick & Noel(36w4d)and Nia.
http://lilypie.com>
http://lilypie.com>
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catybarra
Fri Mar-16-07 09:27 AM
Member since Jul 18th 2005
499 posts
#264263, "RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc"
In response to Reply # 2
I totally understand, which is why I use the spontaneous when the information is necessary. I just wouldn't have known about it until I came to this board. I don't use the word natural, I use the word spontaneous (althouh I always associate that word with combustion )
Cathy
Come visit us at http://www.leighaandthetriplets.blogspot.com/
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VballPlayer
Fri Mar-16-07 09:24 AM
Member since Jul 18th 2005
814 posts
#264260, "RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc"
In response to Reply # 0
Cathy,
I agree with you 100 percent. Most people don't know to use the word "spontaneous" vs "natural". By saying my triplets were concieved "naturally", I mean I didn't have medical help. That does not mean I mean anything negative to those who had help.
I didn't know people used "spontaneous" instead of natural until I came on this forum and switched to my peri at 13 weeks.
I am with you. I am happy people can have triplets - no matter how it happens. And, no, I didn't have to go thru the trials and tribulations of IVF or Fertility treatmeents so I will NEVER understand what those women went thru. It is definitely a different view of looking at things, and one with which I can never relate, so I perfectly understand other "natural" moms looking for "natural" moms and Fertility moms seeking out fertility moms.
Carrie
and the crew...
Tyler 9/01 (5)
and Noah 10/03(3)
Andrew(Buddha), Jason (Trouble) and Tessa (Princess) 11/16/05
born at 35 weeks 4 days
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bsebllmom9
Fri Mar-16-07 09:26 AM
Member since Jul 18th 2005
2059 posts
#264262, "RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Mar-16-07 09:38 AM by bsebllmom9
I had sex and ended up with 3, no wait 5 and here we are. I also had medical help to get 3 of my 5...so sex really has nothing to do with it, now does it?
I got nothing against you fertile myrtles...I don't care who calls their kids natural, spontaneous or plastic! I gave a "gentle" nudge in the correct term to use on this board. I never told her to not talk about her kids! I responded to her question about speech with a "gentle" reminder of the political correctness of this board.
Congrats on your natural triplets! Congrats to me on my petri dish triplets!
Michelle
Ty~1-2-91~ 16
Steph~11-19-92~ 14
Ayden, Ryley, Dylan~33wk2d~11-16-04~ 2
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/a/aydenryleydylan/
http://www.walkamerica.org/stuckeytriplets
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catybarra
Fri Mar-16-07 09:31 AM
Member since Jul 18th 2005
499 posts
#264267, "RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc"
In response to Reply # 4
LMAO! No, you gave a nudge, although tsk tsk..you did use capital letters. The shame.
That's how I learned, someone explained to me the difference and the reasoning behind it. I appreciated it, I don't like to piss people off (well, hmmm....in some circumstandces)
Cathy
Come visit us at http://www.leighaandthetriplets.blogspot.com/
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bsebllmom9
Fri Mar-16-07 09:37 AM
Member since Jul 18th 2005
2059 posts
#264269, "RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc"
In response to Reply # 8
ahhh, but a gentle one at that! She's new, she needed to be eased in to this place. But she loves everyone and her triplets, so it's all good! Great to know her husband has her back too when the S*#* hits the fan, I would hope my husband would do the same for me...oh wait he doesn't get involved in mama drama!
Michelle
Ty~1-2-91~ 16
Steph~11-19-92~ 14
Ayden, Ryley, Dylan~33wk2d~11-16-04~ 2
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/a/aydenryleydylan/
http://www.walkamerica.org/stuckeytriplets
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jonib
Fri Mar-16-07 09:28 AM
Member since Oct 11th 2005
181 posts
#264265, "RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc"
In response to Reply # 0
still not sure what was in your post that got it pulled...blow it off though...natural, organic, spontaneous, alien intervention, we've all got triplets right? (at least some of us here do ) We did IVF, it was tough, but it's over and I have my babies...I'm not one to get all bowed up about terms...those who do can get over it as quickly as they can get po'd about it!
Jonib
mom to
Abby
Andy
Caroline
33 weeks 11/20/05
Rhett 9
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kylamel
Fri Mar-16-07 09:41 AM
Member since Jul 18th 2005
1477 posts
#264272, "RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc"
In response to Reply # 7
Ok, I am the "one" who made the comment that it was "not necessary". Here is exactly what I posted:
<(I dont think that "spontaneous" triplets are different from triplets conceived via medical assistance when it comes to potential speech delays. That piece of information was probably not necessary.[br />
I agree.. I would check the other threads about fish oil and I would have them referred to EI to have them evaluated.])
I dont get offended if someone refers to their triplets as natural, but I have been offended by people who have referred to mine as "unnatural" or negatively because I used clomid to get pregnant.
Simply put, my comment to the OP was that there would be no difference between "spontaneous" triplets or "non-spontaneous" triplets - they could all have speech delays.
GOD BLESS ANYONE who can concieve w/out medical assistance, I envy you !!!
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Tracey
Fri Mar-16-07 11:10 AM
Member since Jul 18th 2005
1819 posts
#264305, "ORGANIC"
In response to Reply # 7
omgosh, that's the BEST! I really have always hated the term spontaneous b/c it implies that it just magically happended. (btw, I did have sex...) and natural seems to alienate those who went through infertility. However, my kiddos are ORGANIC
Thanks for the laugh,
Tracey
Michael (10)
Francesca (9)
Matthew, Alexis & Gabrielle (7)
Torunn (Norwegian DD,19)
Johannes (upcoming German DS,15)
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DebM
Fri Mar-16-07 10:02 AM
Member since Mar 31st 2006
409 posts
#264276, "RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc"
In response to Reply # 0
To me, reading natural or spontaneous means the same thing. Spontaneous doesn't "sound" more politically correct to me. It's just a different word to use. And I agree, I feel when it is used it is only referring to the natural conception verses IVF. I never think of it as my IVF babies are not natural.
Any triplets ( spontaneous or IVF ) are a surprise. Even with IVF there is just a small chance all will implant. I was given a 1% chance of triplets when I did IVF. I had three transfered and three took. So I'm sure most of us didn't expect to end up with triplets. So just because IVF is done doesn't mean we all went into this knowing we would end up with three.
I feel I was just as surprised at the first ultrasound than someone who didn't do IVF when I was told there were three babies.
I guess what I'm trying to get at, is from the IVF side of view, I don't see much of a need to announce yourself as , Hi, I'm so&so with spontaneous triplets. When I introduce myself, I don't say I'm Debbie with IVF triplets. But then again, I'm only speaking from my IVF point of view and it always feels like this statement means those babies are more special.(Even though I'm sure it isn't meant to come across that way). I just wanted to give this side of the perspective.
Luke- 4lb,12oz
Wade - 3lb,4oz
Zoe - 5lb,2oz
Born at 34 weeks
http://www.totsites.com/tot/ourtrio
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JesTrips
Fri Mar-16-07 10:15 AM
Member since Jul 18th 2005
1205 posts
#264281, "RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc"
In response to Reply # 11
When people say this it is usually because that is the first question we are all asked. Not on this board but in the real world. When someone comes to this board for the first time they are just sharing their story - and if their children were conceived spontaneously that is part of their story just like those that say their babies were conceived w/ one round of clomid etc.
If I mention that my babies were spontaneous it isn't to rub it in to anyone nor am I saying they are more special. (Even though to me they are but that is because they are mine )
No one should be made to feel guilty for sharing this small part of their story - from either side. But at the same time, they won't know that the natural phrasing is offensive if they aren't nudged.
"
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Mom2aej
Fri Mar-16-07 10:26 AM
Member since Jul 18th 2005
148 posts
#264287, "RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc"
In response to Reply # 11
>I guess what I'm trying to get at, is from the IVF side of
>view, I don't see much of a need to announce yourself as , Hi,
>I'm so&so with spontaneous triplets. When I introduce myself,
>I don't say I'm Debbie with IVF triplets. But then again, I'm
>only speaking from my IVF point of view and it always feels
>like this statement means those babies are more special.(Even
>though I'm sure it isn't meant to come across that way). I
>just wanted to give this side of the perspective.
Just wanted to say I do understand your perspective but please also understand that for us "spontaneous people" We are usually just in a major state of shock and do not realize how common our situations are. I seriously doubt that anyone thinks that their babies are more special just because they are spontaneous.
Mom2aej
Amelia, Emily & Jarrett 4/9/99
"Just when you get a handle on life... It changes."
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sweetboyz
Fri Mar-16-07 10:49 AM
Member since Jul 18th 2005
145 posts
#264300, "RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc"
In response to Reply # 18
I hesitate to add to this as I think we all mean well and are just processing our own experience and wanting others to know where we are coming from. I agree with a pp that when someone says spontaneous ( or natural), I hear that differently. Not that anyone thinks their kids are more special, but that they were more shocked. And b/c that is the reaction from the outside world- if we say we used fertility, it is like we must have expected or been prepared for multiples. They then look at our situation completely differently. And then I feel like they do not understand my experience at all - had IUI, one egg ready, told it was unlikely to take, so not expecting to get pg much less ever considered multiples! So I think we were all shocked and unprepared for the news.
Again, I do not feel offended by these things, just misunderstood sometimes.
Suzanne
BBB 4/17/00
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DebM
Fri Mar-16-07 12:38 PM
Member since Mar 31st 2006
409 posts
#264339, "RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc"
In response to Reply # 18
Thanks - I agree with you about the "shock" factor. Even with just a 1% chance I was still WAY shocked. I can't imagine how I would feel if I went in not even thinking there could be a wee bit of a chance and then finding three babies. So I can see where you are coming from.
Luke- 4lb,12oz
Wade - 3lb,4oz
Zoe - 5lb,2oz
Born at 34 weeks
http://www.totsites.com/tot/ourtrio
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AngelP
Fri Mar-16-07 11:18 AM
Member since Jul 18th 2005
1110 posts
#264307, "RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc"
In response to Reply # 11
These are my thoughts exactly. Although, I do agree with the OP definitions spontaneous versus natural....I don't really know why it really matters how our babies are conceived. If we were to have singletons or twins, we would probably never be asked how our babies were conceived. Many of these babies may also be babies that were conceived with medical intervention, but would the method of conception ever be brought up. I doubt it.
I'm sure we are all shocked with having triplets (or more), and they are all miracles. I thank God for the medical intervention that helps many conceive, without it many would never be able to have children.
Angel (mom to Justin, Andrew, Brandon 7 yrs, Angie 13 yrs)
Help fight prematurity and save the lives of babies! Visit: www.walkamerica.org/PiechotaFamily
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LRB
Fri Mar-16-07 10:09 AM
Member since Jul 18th 2005
868 posts
#264279, "RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc"
In response to Reply # 0
Good Grief!
Spontaneous, natural - why must some consider themselves slapped in the face if anyone mentions spontaneously/naturally conceived triplets? Yes, after the rollercoaster of infertility, I think mine are pretty darn special. I knew that there was that .02% or whatever chance of multiples. Imagine peeing on a stick and finding out weeks later that there are three in there! The shock! And then to come in here to find others who experienced the same shock whether married, divorced, single, rich, poor, or whatever, and get a lecture on whether everyone is being politically correct enough!
Yes, women can be our own worst enemies!
*******
The above was my post from the last thread that could best be described as "Political Correctness for Dummys - Triplet Edition".
Honestly, I'm more offended by the few continue to try to keep us all educated on the correct use of the term "natural" vs. "spontaneous" as they see it than by the innocent posters just trying to convey information in normal conversation.
Robin
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Laurene
Fri Mar-16-07 10:10 AM
Member since Jul 18th 2005
2110 posts
#264280, "RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc"
In response to Reply # 0
Again - What was in my vagina to get my babies is beside the point - huh?
It always makes me smile to think of growing up and my mother wouldn't let me eat cake batter if it was from a mix because she said it had Chinese eggs in it. WTH are Chinese eggs - don't they come from Chickens like American eggs? Point being - my babies also come from eggs! lol
Sorry this has come up again - we will educate the world us HOM's.
Laurene- Proud mother of six: Janis 26 - attending UCSF for Masters in Critical Care Nursing; Jessica 24 - Graduates in May with RN; Jeremiah 22 - Married and a Diesel/Mechanic Welder with two Assoc degrees
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azwallace
Fri Mar-16-07 10:22 AM
Member since Jul 18th 2005
636 posts
#264285, "RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc"
In response to Reply # 13
I think there is a stigma surrounding women that used infertility treatments and ended up have HOM. I know that I was concerned about what my family might think of it and was afraid they would think we were "irresponsible".
After years of trying, it's hard when strangers pass judgement on you when all you really wanted was one baby when you were going to the RE. I think that is where some of my sensitivity comes from.
It feels like when people ask (whether they mean to or not) they want to qualify your conception/pregnancy/babies. Natural is, "Wow, God gave you those babies!," and assisted is, "Wow, what were you thinking?" That's what I sometime walk away feeling.
Stephanie
Mama to Beautiful Quads
Born October 12, 2005
30 weeks, 5 days
and ^Angel Baby^ 1/05
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SuzieQ
Fri Mar-16-07 10:54 AM
Member since Feb 05th 2007
42 posts
#264301, "RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc"
In response to Reply # 16
I totally agree with Stephanie. We did IVF twice, and with my singleton daughter none of these comments, questions, etc. were an issue. Now that I'm pregnant with triplets, it seems like most people are concerned with the methods involved and not the babies themselves. I do feel that we're judged quite often--like oh well, you got yourself into this situation.
People who don't know what it's like to battle infertility do make hurtful comments even though they're not meaning to. Just yesterday I was on the phone with a friend whose sister-in-law just found out she's pregnant with triplets. My friend said to me that they were not even trying to get pregnant so this is definitely God's will. What??? Like God doesn't have control over IVF outcomes?? Is there a question about whether mine are God's will or not????
I just try to remember that no matter what the situation is, you just don't know until you've been there. And that goes the other way, too. I don't know what it feels like to have spontaneous triplets so I may be inadvertently insensitive in some ways. The fact is, life experiences skew all of our perspectives and it just can't be helped. I think most of the moms on here are extra sensitive because (I think) since we're all in a special situation, we tend to be more understanding and caring of each other. We just have to remember that. Add to the fact that a lot of us are hormonal and we are just plain women, there will always be a little bit of drama. You have to just laugh, right?
Everyone have a great day!
Suz
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DebM
Fri Mar-16-07 12:50 PM
Member since Mar 31st 2006
409 posts
#264351, "RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc"
In response to Reply # 16
Stephanie - That is SO TRUE. I had someone ask me if I used fertility drugs. I said no ( not a lie - I used donor eggs). At that point her whole face lit up and she said WOW, so they're "natural"!! she was acting like since she thought they were "natural" it was a spectatular event. If I had told her IVF, I'm sure she wouldn't have reacted the same way.
Luke- 4lb,12oz
Wade - 3lb,4oz
Zoe - 5lb,2oz
Born at 34 weeks
http://www.totsites.com/tot/ourtrio
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Mom2aej
Fri Mar-16-07 10:18 AM
Member since Jul 18th 2005
148 posts
#264284, "RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc"
In response to Reply # 0
Cathy
Thank you so much for your post. I did not see the original one that got pulled so I can't comment on that.
I have to say that probably most of us that had spontaneous triplets had NO IDEA what it is like to be infertile and have to go through what many of these women seen to have had to go through. I am probably one that these women would hate. I stopped my BC pills in august, less than a month later I was PG and I found out at an early us (That I was only sent to to determine the due date) I found out there were three. If it wasn't for that one I might not have found out until much further along in my pg. I have to say I was shocked and totally overwhelmed and started searching for information on triplets. That was how I came and found this site. And just for the record, I have been here since way before this message board existed.
I have a few things to credit this site for. One is the many good friends I have made. The other is I learned a lot about infertility. I will NEVER completely understand what women who have had to deal with it have gone through but at least I know now that it is a problem that does exist. I'll bet there are a lot of families out there with singleton children who have dealt with infertility but they are not as well know since "everyone" assumes that multiples had "help" I've never seen anyone with a singleton asked if he/she was IVF.
I also have learned that spontaneous multiples is not as rare as I thought it was. In fact there are a lot more of us that I think most people realize.
I'm sorry if people get hurt by some terminologies that get used here but If you have no idea about the other side; its very hard to not realize when something is hurting someone else. I have a very good friend who can't get pg with out help and she is definitely done with expanding her family however she still longs very much for another and posts about "surprise pg" tend to hurt her, esp because she can never even expect a surprise. I guess the point is that everything that is said can hurt someone with out intending to.
No matter how we got here, we are all here for the same reason. We have multiples. Lets just try to support each other. If someone said something that you find offensive, walk away from the keys and think about it. 9 times out of 10, I'm sure it was not the intention to be hurtful.
Its funny, this is a lesson I'm trying to teach my son. He has a great gift of saying exactly on his mind but some of the things he says are hurtful. I don't even think he realizes it. (ex. He sees a very obese person asks why is he so fat. not being mean but being curious)
Mom2aej
Amelia, Emily & Jarrett 4/9/99
"Just when you get a handle on life... It changes."
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kylamel
Fri Mar-16-07 10:24 AM
Member since Jul 18th 2005
1477 posts
#264286, "RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc"
In response to Reply # 15
I will say that the original post got pulled, not for what I posted, but for what "maiuitripletmom" and her DH were posting. They started becoming very malicious and evil towards me and another member.
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VballPlayer
Fri Mar-16-07 10:42 AM
Member since Jul 18th 2005
814 posts
#264298, "RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc"
In response to Reply # 17
Those that feel fertility issues are "unnatural" are using it in a derrogatory manner. They will always feel that way and continue to use it to hurt those they want, by saying fertilitiy babies are unnatural and not as special as "natural" babies. You will never change those people's minds, no matter how many times you tell them it hurts. You are letting them get the better of you by acknowledging them. You know your babies are special and are a gift from God no matter how they are concieved. That should be all that matters.
The schmucks that think otherwise are just that, schmucks and don't deserve the time or energy involved in trying to change their minds.
Carrie
and the crew...
Tyler 9/01 (5)
and Noah 10/03(3)
Andrew(Buddha), Jason (Trouble) and Tessa (Princess) 11/16/05
born at 35 weeks 4 days
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madmolly
Fri Mar-16-07 12:27 PM
Member since Oct 07th 2005
1297 posts
#264332, "RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc"
In response to Reply # 19
Oh, oh!! Can I be a schmuck???
Lea
bgg 1/22/06 @ 28.3 weeks
g 6/04 @ 34 weeks
g 7/99
g 6/97
www.thewaywardstork.com
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JesTrips
Fri Mar-16-07 12:32 PM
Member since Jul 18th 2005
1205 posts
#264335, "RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc"
In response to Reply # 27
I think what she is saying is that the people that *do* think art babies are not as special as sp babies are the schmucks and they always will be.
Not the people that have been through a hard time and are sensitive to the issue are schmucks.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
"
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madmolly
Fri Mar-16-07 12:41 PM
Member since Oct 07th 2005
1297 posts
#264341, "RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc"
In response to Reply # 29
Oh damn. I wanted to be labelled a schmuck...
Lea
bgg 1/22/06 @ 28.3 weeks
g 6/04 @ 34 weeks
g 7/99
g 6/97
www.thewaywardstork.com
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JesTrips
Fri Mar-16-07 12:51 PM
Member since Jul 18th 2005
1205 posts
#264353, "RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc"
In response to Reply # 31
OK - You're a schmuck. Just not for this reason
"
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VballPlayer
Fri Mar-16-07 03:49 PM
Member since Jul 18th 2005
814 posts
#264535, "RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc"
In response to Reply # 34
You can be a schmuck if you want to, but I was referring to the people that make stupid idiodic comments about IVF babies being unnatural being the schmucks, NOT the moms who are sensitive to the subject. You won't change an idiot's mind if they feel it is unnatural. That's the point I was trying to make.
Carrie
and the crew...
Tyler 9/01 (5)
and Noah 10/03(3)
Andrew(Buddha), Jason (Trouble) and Tessa (Princess) 11/16/05
born at 35 weeks 4 days
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MSTAR
Fri Mar-16-07 11:25 AM
Member since Jul 18th 2005
801 posts
#264310, "RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc"
In response to Reply # 0
Cathy,
I think if my triplets had been naturally conceieved I would tatoo my forehead or wear a flourescent shirt with neon lights saying it! You KNOW people think that we got what we "deserved" with our ART babies. They may not say it, but you know they think it and sometimes they say it, and I think it would suck to have naturally conceieved triplets and be stuck with people thinking this or saying this to me. Plus, then you guys are somehow made to feel ashamed because their spontaneous on here. It rather annoys me.
That being said, don't make me send my fake triplets over there to kick your real triplets butts. Our real singletsons can referee!
Michele
Sarah, Gregory, Amanda
born 1/22/04 at 35w1d
Our surprise baby Austin born 06/15/2005
www.fourtimesthefun.blogspot.com
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DebM
Fri Mar-16-07 01:02 PM
Member since Mar 31st 2006
409 posts
#264372, "RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc"
In response to Reply # 24
ROFLAO - too funny.
My brother has twins and my whole family and his were out eating dinner one night. He leans over the table and says real quietly to me "my babies can beat up your babies". It was just so unexpected and random, I got so tickled over it and couldn't stop laughing. I just wanted to share, because I laughed at your post and it brought back that memory.
Luke- 4lb,12oz
Wade - 3lb,4oz
Zoe - 5lb,2oz
Born at 34 weeks
http://www.totsites.com/tot/ourtrio
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kkc1025
Fri Mar-16-07 11:29 AM
Member since Mar 22nd 2006
17 posts
#264314, "RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc"
In response to Reply # 0
Hi Cathy,
I think your post is 100% right on. However, I think it's very sad that this even needed clarification. My triplets were conceived via IVF. I mean really, who cares... aren't we all just lucky to have the kids??????? It takes a lot to get me riled up enough to write/respond to something like this. I think it's a shame that there is apparently an "us vs. them" mentality... whether or not people will admit it.
I think everyone who has HOM is amazing regardless of how you got there. However, personally I'm a bit more WOW'd by the conception of "spontaneous" triplets than IVF. I knew I had a greater chance of conceiving multiples... albeit a very small chance HA HA! It has to be much more of a suprise/shock to conceive spontaneously. Regardless, we are all very blessed and should be on the same "team".
Cheers!
~Kerry
GGG born 06/30/06 not naturally... : )
33 weeks 2 days
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boomom
Fri Mar-16-07 12:19 PM
Member since Jul 18th 2005
1354 posts
#264329, "RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc"
In response to Reply # 0
Thank you Cathy! When I read the original thread, I thought, "oh, here we go again!
I agree, who give a rats rump if someone announces their multiples as natural? We all know that they are not implying that their children are natural and ART babies are not!
My assumption when a poster mentions natural/spontaneous is that they are seeking other members that may have the same experience. Those of us who have conceived via ART will never fully understand the utter SHOCK that spontaneous parents must have experienced when learning they were pregnant with multiples. I cannot even fathom it! At least when persuing ART we were warned of the higher potential of conceiving multiples. Yes, still a shock, but I imagine NOTHING compared to someone who had a spontaneous conception (a pp is right, it does remind me of "spontaneous combustion,roflmbo!)
As you will notice from my signature, I list one of my dd's as having Down Syndrome simply for two reasons: #1 I am incredibly proud of being blessed with a child with Down Syndrome. Such a special gift to be given to our family! #2 I seek other parents who have a similar situation, not necessarily Downs, but special needs in general. There is a special commeraderie (sp? I am sure I slaughtered that one, too lazy to spell check!) between parents with simliar situations, kwim?
Anyhoo! I really hope "spontaneous" members are not afraid to mention that they conceived naturally in their introductions because of the stirring it causes on this board! If I were in their situation, I would shout it from the mountain tops!
Gina
G 12yo
BGG(Down Syndrome)9yo
"You will know sorrow like few others and yet you will know joy above joy. You will meet dirty faced angels on playgrounds who are kind to your child without being told to be." Susan F. Rzucidlo
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bsebllmom9
Fri Mar-16-07 12:46 PM
Member since Jul 18th 2005
2059 posts
#264348, "RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc"
In response to Reply # 26
>
>My assumption when a poster mentions natural/spontaneous is
>that they are seeking other members that may have the same
>experience. Those of us who have conceived via ART will never
>fully understand the utter SHOCK that spontaneous parents must
>have experienced when learning they were pregnant with
>multiples.
___________________
Yes but asking a question about speech delay has not a damn thing to do with if your triplets are spontaneous or not!! Plain and simple.
Once the kid/s arrive it doesn't matter how they came about. They're here. They have the same issues any other kid might have. Just because they started in the womb (W/O fertility meds to make more eggs) or if they started in a petri dish or with the help of lot of egg producing drugs, doesn't cause one kid to have a special issue versus not...That's the luck of the draw. I don't pick my HOM friends because they started out the same way as me. I pick my HOM friends because of how we get along. I could give a care if their kids are spontaneous or not...
But like someone else said, I don't make it common knowledge how mine were created. If it comes up in conversation, okay, but if not, I don't care. Just like I don't ask all the new people or other MOMs I meet how their kids were created. I don't care! I just don't. A kid's a kid to me...If I really need to be around people that only made their babies through ART, then I'll find a message board exclusively to that...otherwise here, we're all the same!
Michelle
Ty~1-2-91~ 16
Steph~11-19-92~ 14
Ayden, Ryley, Dylan~33wk2d~11-16-04~ 2
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/a/aydenryleydylan/
http://www.walkamerica.org/stuckeytriplets
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julie123
Fri Mar-16-07 12:30 PM
Member since Jun 13th 2006
501 posts
#264333, "RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc"
In response to Reply # 0
Mine were IVF babies, and I am certainly proud of the struggles I've been through to get these beautiful babies. I don't mind the discussion of spontaneous/natural versus IVF/medically assisted pregnancies ON THIS BOARD among other moms of multiples.
however, I DO have a problem with it being discussed, or asked of me, by the general public. if I havne't already shared it with you, you don't need to know. That's my opinion.
I can somewhat understand all the sensitivity, as those of us who do have IVF (or other assistance types) babies, get a lot of greif from the public, as if our GOAL was to have multiples. Most on this forum seem to wholly understand that is NOT the case. The general puclic however does not seem to get that.
Just my two cents.
Julie wife to Mark and mom to
Tristan Declan 4lbs 3oz
Cassandra Madison 4lbs 7oz
Ryland Markus 4lbs 2oz
Born on 9/5/06 at 32 weeks 4 days
www.cysticfibrosismaleinfertility.com
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naynay
Fri Mar-16-07 12:55 PM
Member since Feb 28th 2007
28 posts
#264359, "RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc"
In response to Reply # 28
Julie,
I couldn't agree with you more. I do not mind at all discussing how I conceived my children on this board but I take great offense when someone I do not even know asks me in public or privately for that matter. Do I ask them how their children were conceived, multiples or not? The answer is NO. I have been accused of being too sensitive about this issue and maybe I am. But the truth of the matter is that inferility is a private medical issue. People usually don't ask others about their medical issues so why should this be any different? I am most certainly not ashamed that my triplets were the result of clomid but it is only my business and that information will be shared with whoever I choose to share it with. I am very lucky that I really did not ride the infertility roller coaster, but that does not mean that I have not witnessed first hand the women, including my sweet angel of a sister, who have unfortuately experienced this. There are many women who concevied through ART and have no problem discussing their experiences with others including complete strangers. Good for them but that certainly is not everyone. I do not care if people are curious or not. Sometimes people need to be a bit more discreet and sensitive about others experiences. I know that this has nothing to do with the original post and I am sorry if I rambled but I just needed to vent.
Proud mommy of clomid triplets!!!
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naynay
Fri Mar-16-07 12:57 PM
Member since Feb 28th 2007
28 posts
#264363, "RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc"
In response to Reply # 36
Julie,
I couldn't agree with you more. I do not mind at all discussing how I conceived my children on this board but I take great offense when someone I do not even know asks me in public or privately for that matter. Do I ask them how their children were conceived, multiples or not? The answer is NO. I have been accused of being too sensitive about this issue and maybe I am. But the truth of the matter is that inferility is a private medical issue. People usually don't ask others about their medical issues so why should this be any different? I am most certainly not ashamed that my triplets were the result of clomid but it is only my business and that information will be shared with whoever I choose to share it with. I am very lucky that I really did not ride the infertility roller coaster, but that does not mean that I have not witnessed first hand the women, including my sweet angel of a sister, who have unfortuately experienced this. There are many women who concevied through ART and have no problem discussing their experiences with others including complete strangers. Good for them but that certainly is not everyone. I do not care if people are curious or not. Sometimes people need to be a bit more discreet and sensitive about others experiences. I know that this has nothing to do with the original post and I am sorry if I rambled but I just needed to vent.
Proud mommy of clomid triplets!!!
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JesTrips
Fri Mar-16-07 01:12 PM
Member since Jul 18th 2005
1205 posts
#264385, "RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc"
In response to Reply # 28
I've learned the general public is full of idiots.
"
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jonib
Fri Mar-16-07 12:54 PM
Member since Oct 11th 2005
181 posts
#264357, "RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc"
In response to Reply # 0
madmolly, why are you such a smhuck
Jonib
mom to
Abby
Andy
Caroline
33 weeks 11/20/05
Rhett 9
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madmolly
Fri Mar-16-07 12:55 PM
Member since Oct 07th 2005
1297 posts
#264361, "RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc"
In response to Reply # 35
Awwww, thanks!!! *Shucks*
Lea
bgg 1/22/06 @ 28.3 weeks
g 6/04 @ 34 weeks
g 7/99
g 6/97
www.thewaywardstork.com
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naynay
Fri Mar-16-07 01:04 PM
Member since Feb 28th 2007
28 posts
#264377, "RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc"
In response to Reply # 0
Julie,
I couldn't agree with you more. I do not mind at all discussing how I conceived my children on this board but I take great offense when someone I do not even know asks me in public or privately for that matter. Do I ask them how their children were conceived, multiples or not? The answer is NO. I have been accused of being too sensitive about this issue and maybe I am. But the truth of the matter is that inferility is a private medical issue. People usually don't ask others about their medical issues so why should this be any different? I am most certainly not ashamed that my triplets were the result of clomid but it is only my business and that information will be shared with whoever I choose to share it with. I am very lucky that I really did not ride the infertility roller coaster, but that does not mean that I have not witnessed first hand the women, including my sweet angel of a sister, who have unfortuately experienced this. There are many women who concevied through ART and have no problem discussing their experiences with others including complete strangers. Good for them but that certainly is not everyone. I do not care if people are curious or not. Sometimes people need to be a bit more discreet and sensitive about others experiences. I know that this has nothing to do with the original post and I am sorry if I rambled but I just needed to vent.
Proud mommy of clomid triplets!!!
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foreveramom
Fri Mar-16-07 01:13 PM
Member since Jan 30th 2006
719 posts
#264388, "RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc"
In response to Reply # 0
I think, for me at least, the reason why the whole spontaneous(natural) vs. IVF thing rubs me the wrong way is that when I meet strangers, and they ask, it's sometimes the "well, that's what you get for messing with nature" response.
If you say you conceived them without help, everyone's "oh, how wonderful, how marvelous, what an incredible gift." If you conceived with help, you get "wow, that's why I don't ever want to go through fertility treatment."
It's so "neat" if they're natural.
It's so "scary" if they're IVF.
If I respond in public that they were conceived spontaneously, I feel bad that I lied. But the alternative is that I share with people who automatically judge if you say you had help. Nobody judges anyone who spontaneously conceived. That's the difference.
Lesa
Mom to: Kristi - 20, USAF, wife & mom **Kevin - 18, a Chemical Engineering Honor Student at USF **Kelli - 16, Principal's Honor Roll student **Angus - 4, beautiful redhead **Ruca, Nadia, Max - 2, GGB triplets www.angusandthetriplets.com
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JesTrips
Fri Mar-16-07 01:22 PM
Member since Jul 18th 2005
1205 posts
#264398, "RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc"
In response to Reply # 42
Some people are a little weirded out by us too.
Mt cousin & his wife say my story was enought to keep them from trying for one more. I know they don't mean this as an insult to my kids - they love them but don't want multiples themselves.
As stupid as this sounds - some of dh's guy friends wouldn't even sit next to me for a while. Like I could get pg just by being close to them or something. No lie!
"
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boomom
Fri Mar-16-07 02:34 PM
Member since Jul 18th 2005
1354 posts
#264441, "RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc"
In response to Reply # 43
My bil and sil conceived their first child through ART and said that they didn't want to try again because they were afraid they would "end up" like us. Bil's words were "I would rather be dead than to have triplets!" THAT burns my buns to this day!
Gina
G 12yo
BGG(Down Syndrome)9yo
"You will know sorrow like few others and yet you will know joy above joy. You will meet dirty faced angels on playgrounds who are kind to your child without being told to be." Susan F. Rzucidlo
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julie123
Fri Mar-16-07 03:56 PM
Member since Jun 13th 2006
501 posts
#264545, "RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc"
In response to Reply # 42
Yes, I get that response too. Like I PLANNED to have triplets or something? I was surprised ONE took, let alone 2 took, one split and all 3 implanted. What are the chances of that? Not high!
I also hate with my command, that when I stated we've been struggling a bit financially after someone in my chain of command heard me on the phone (IN MY OFFICE I might add!) talking with the local DSHS office about my food stamp benefits and inquired... that it's MY FAULT. I love my babies and would not change anything, sure I choose to do IVF, and sure I choose NOT to terminate. But come on, I just wanted to be a mother!
I have had 2 "did you do IVF" questions asked of me in public that have continued on with a, "Oh, sorry, just asking because we are going to do IVF later this year". On those 2, and ONLY 2 occasions have I said, "ok, do you have a minute, I'd love to talk to you"
Julie wife to Mark and mom to
Tristan Declan 4lbs 3oz
Cassandra Madison 4lbs 7oz
Ryland Markus 4lbs 2oz
Born on 9/5/06 at 32 weeks 4 days
www.cysticfibrosismaleinfertility.com
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gkm15099
Fri Mar-16-07 02:57 PM
Member since Feb 24th 2007
59 posts
#264477, "RE: Natural vs. Spontaneous vs. IVF vs. etc"
In response to Reply # 0
I had to take the girls to the DR for a hearing check today. Great news: they all passed. I was asked by the technician, two ladies in the lobby, and one lady who wanted me to uncover the girls so she could look in cold rainy weather (Yeah right!), if my girls were "natural." I have spontaneous triplets, but I always felt so weird answering this question because of what I have learned about the feelings of IVF moms on this board. So I use my standard response. "Yes, but all babies are natural. Aren't they?" It stops most people in their tracks.
I think that it is good that everyone discuss openly our personal experiences. I have learned so much from both IVF moms and spontaneous moms. Just be gentle. On my first post, someone nicely posted that we use the word spontaneous not natural. I've done it ever since. I never felt attacked and I am so thankful to have recieved such wonderful feedback ever since then.
Kimberly,
Mom to Isabelle, Alyssa, and Makenna
www.guinnfamilyhome.com
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