madmolly
Fri Mar-16-07 12:08 PM
Member since Oct 07th 2005
1320 posts
#264325, "Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective"
Fri Mar-16-07 12:20 PM by madmolly
There exists an aire of responsibility that burdens the shoulders of infertility patients. To start with the gnats ass, our bodies aren't working as they should. The most natural of occurrences, the ability to procreate, is unobtainable. That's a fairly defeating concern. Whether the problem lies within our own bodies, or within the body of our partner, the problem exists and we are deemed inadequate. That's a pretty big slap in the face.
Then we endure fertility treatments. The use of IVF, IUI's, or simply medication that "help," certainly are lack luster compared to the romp in the hay that the spontaneous moms gets experience. We are robbed of the intimacy afforded to others when there is a doctor in the room and a sterile catheter in your vaginal canal. There is certainly no need for a ciggy after the stirrups come off! LOL!
To add to the negative feelings, our fertility clinics view HOM's as a failure. Now, how great does that feel? Spontaneous moms are celebrated and fertility moms are frowned upon. That’s not exactly a warm and fuzzy experience. The chances of high order multiples from infertility treatments are very low. However, because multiples are a known risk of fertility treatments (just as they are anytime you lay down with your partner) the general public assumes that HOM moms wanted or attempted to conceive more than one child. This is not a stigma that most of us particularly enjoy. Using the term "natural" relieves the spontaneous HOM mom of responsibility for her situation. Likewise, it holds the infertility mom's feet to the fire. Again, more negativity surrounding the conception of our miracles.
However you look at it, I have a 24 hour a day reminder of my infertility struggles. Instead of it being my personal struggle, it turns out that the entire world feels entitled to my medical and sexual history. It's invasive and intrusive. I am wearing the scarlet letter F on my chest! Some of us infertility moms feel great about speaking out on our experience and welcome the idea of sharing with the world their triumphs over a heart wrenching trial. Others of us would rather put a period and move on. The natural vs spontaneous term is simply another blow to the knees for those of us who would rather celebrate our little ones without labels or social stigmas and move past the years of disappointment and heartache.
The general public is grossly uneducated. Therefore, fertility HOM moms get the short end of the stick. The following questions may not hurt or offend those of you who conceived without any medical assistance but inundate the infertility mom with negativity:
*Are those real triplets?
*Were you blessed or did you have help?
*Did you take a pill for that?
In my personal experience, I have internal family stressors as well. I don't think I can step foot into my mother's home without hearing:
"I told you not to put so many back." Seriously? Slap, slap!
Lastly, and in know way do I intend to offend, for illustrative purposes, I would liken the term of “natural” to “normal.” If you had a child with disabilities and someone ask if you had any "normal" children, it would be taken offensively. This is mostly due in part to the antonym. If you child is not "normal" then she/he must be "abnormal." Instead, in an effort to celebrate that child, we use terms like "special" or "challenged." Like the term "retarded," as it is defined, would be an accurate description in pertaining to certain situations, it would hardly seem sensitive or appropriate to use.
A little bit of sensitivity goes a long way. Spontaneous moms don’t have the same experiences that fertility moms do. I would not expect a spontaneous mom to completely understand. I would, however, expect them to respect the feelings of others.
Lea
bgg 1/22/06 @ 28.3 weeks
g 6/04 @ 34 weeks
g 7/99
g 6/97
www.thewaywardstork.com
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Replies to this topic
RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective, bsebllmom9, Mar 16th 2007, #1
RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective, kylamel, Mar 16th 2007, #2
RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective, boomom, Mar 16th 2007, #3
RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective, boomom, Mar 16th 2007, #5
RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective, bsebllmom9, Mar 16th 2007, #8
RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective, boomom, Mar 16th 2007, #11
RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective, Dionne, Mar 16th 2007, #20
RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective, mauitripletmom, Mar 16th 2007, #34
RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective, joytimesthree, Mar 16th 2007, #32
RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective, madmolly, Mar 16th 2007, #4
RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective, cdemp, Mar 16th 2007, #9
RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective, PA triplets, Mar 16th 2007, #6
RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective, madmolly, Mar 16th 2007, #7
RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective, cdemp, Mar 16th 2007, #10
RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective, mandlzn, Mar 16th 2007, #12
RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective, madmolly, Mar 16th 2007, #13
RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective, jonib, Mar 16th 2007, #14
RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective, bsebllmom9, Mar 16th 2007, #15
RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective, Sunshinebabies3, Mar 16th 2007, #16
RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective, kylamel, Mar 16th 2007, #17
RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective, bsebllmom9, Mar 16th 2007, #19
RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective, sushannah, Mar 16th 2007, #29
RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective, JesTrips, Mar 16th 2007, #23
RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective, mandlzn, Mar 16th 2007, #26
RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective, Sunshinebabies3, Mar 16th 2007, #30
RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective, bsebllmom9, Mar 16th 2007, #33
RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective, foreveramom, Mar 16th 2007, #18
RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective, madmolly, Mar 16th 2007, #21
RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective, gkm15099, Mar 16th 2007, #22
RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective, jonib, Mar 16th 2007, #24
RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective, madmolly, Mar 16th 2007, #25
RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective, 3isamagicnumber, Mar 16th 2007, #27
Question, Tracey, Mar 16th 2007, #28
RE: Question, boomom, Mar 16th 2007, #31
RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective, Teentrips3, Mar 16th 2007, #35
RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective, madmolly, Mar 16th 2007, #36
RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective, JesTrips, Mar 16th 2007, #38
RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective, madmolly, Mar 16th 2007, #39
RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective, JesTrips, Mar 16th 2007, #40
RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective, foreveramom, Mar 16th 2007, #
RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective, madmolly, Mar 16th 2007, #42
RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective, Tracey, Mar 16th 2007, #41
RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective, hergrace42, Mar 16th 2007, #37
bsebllmom9
Fri Mar-16-07 12:16 PM
Member since Jul 18th 2005
2068 posts
#264327, "RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri Mar-16-07 12:18 PM by bsebllmom9
Michelle
Ty~1-2-91~ 16
Steph~11-19-92~ 14
Ayden, Ryley, Dylan~33wk2d~11-16-04~ 2
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/a/aydenryleydylan/
http://www.walkamerica.org/stuckeytriplets
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kylamel
Fri Mar-16-07 12:32 PM
Member since Jul 18th 2005
1478 posts
#264336, "RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective"
In response to Reply # 1
Well put Lea!
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boomom
Fri Mar-16-07 12:32 PM
Member since Jul 18th 2005
1357 posts
#264337, "RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective"
In response to Reply # 1
Michelle,
R O T F L M B O!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Where ever did you find that? I just blew my soda all over my computer screen!
Lea,
Thank you for giving the perspective of us ART parents! Although, we did not do IVF, we did do IUI with injectibles. Your post took me back in time. I remember the utter devastation when told that we would probably never conceive with out medical intervention, especially when everyone around us seemed to become pregnant with ease. It was heartwrenching.
I do, however, like to give people the benefit of the doubt when inquiring how my kids were conceived. But, like I said, our journey to parenthood via ART was a "walk in the park" compared to some so I cannot fairly put myself in their place and perceptions of the nosey and sometimes insulting comments from the general public.
On the flip side, I would love to see a spontaneous parent start a thread on their conception experience. Being that we conceived via ART, we could never fully understand their shock and surprise! I would find it very interesting! Anyone here willing to share their experience publicly? I do not mean to be nosey, but I love hearing everyones "finding out" stories!
Gina
G 12yo
BGG(Down Syndrome)9yo
"You will know sorrow like few others and yet you will know joy above joy. You will meet dirty faced angels on playgrounds who are kind to your child without being told to be." Susan F. Rzucidlo
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boomom
Fri Mar-16-07 12:44 PM
Member since Jul 18th 2005
1357 posts
#264344, "RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective"
In response to Reply # 3
Okay, I am still dying over Michelle's "applause" display!!!!!!! I AM in an extremely giddy mood today though! But gosh darn that is sooo funny!
I had to cross my legs all the way to the bathroom!
Gina
G 12yo
BGG(Down Syndrome)9yo
"You will know sorrow like few others and yet you will know joy above joy. You will meet dirty faced angels on playgrounds who are kind to your child without being told to be." Susan F. Rzucidlo
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bsebllmom9
Fri Mar-16-07 12:51 PM
Member since Jul 18th 2005
2068 posts
#264354, "RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective"
In response to Reply # 5
Found them in photobucket. Just typed in clapping and copied img over here and it worked!! I had no words to respond and since no one can see me clapping, I had to make a visual! I got a million of em!! lol
Michelle
Ty~1-2-91~ 16
Steph~11-19-92~ 14
Ayden, Ryley, Dylan~33wk2d~11-16-04~ 2
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/a/aydenryleydylan/
http://www.walkamerica.org/stuckeytriplets
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boomom
Fri Mar-16-07 12:57 PM
Member since Jul 18th 2005
1357 posts
#264366, "RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective"
In response to Reply # 8
WAY too cute!
Thanks once again for the big giggle!
Gina
G 12yo
BGG(Down Syndrome)9yo
"You will know sorrow like few others and yet you will know joy above joy. You will meet dirty faced angels on playgrounds who are kind to your child without being told to be." Susan F. Rzucidlo
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Dionne
Fri Mar-16-07 02:25 PM
Member since Nov 17th 2006
264 posts
#264434, "RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective"
In response to Reply # 3
Well, Gina, I don´t have the nerve to start a new thread . But as a ´spontaneous´ mother I thought I´d throw my two cents worth in. My DH and I had talked of having two children, and we decided to start trying for one. I had been diagnosed with PCOS and had been on the pill for years because of this, so we weren´t sure if we´d be able to have biological children or not. We´d been trying for only a couple of months (which seemed much longer. I can only imagine what some of you went through in years of struggling with infertility) when I had a positive pregnancy test. A friend of mine had had a ¨false pregnancy¨ for lack of a better term, where she had a positive test, all the symptoms, but an empty sac. So, I was afraid to celebrate, for fear the same thing would be true for me.
We had our first ultrasound at 9 weeks, and the Dr. found the baby right away which was really exciting. A few seconds later he found another baby. Not quite as exciting, but still manageable. A few seconds later he found the third baby. I honestly thought he was joking, even tho I could see the image on the screen. I thought it was an optical illusion of some sort. When I realized he wasn´t joking, panic set it. This was now a high risk pregnancy. We were in no economic situation to care for THREE babies. I wanted children, but am not a high energy person and worried that I wouldn´t have the energy to care for even one, and now I was facing three. Thankfully my DH was thrilled and his enthusiasm helped calm my fears. That and reminding myself that if God had given them to me, He would also provide what they needed. Even so, I shook for hours after the ultrasound. (Let me hasten to say that I wouldn´t trade this experience for the world, and I´m thrilled to have my three little ones..I´m just describing the initial shock).
I must admit that I have taken comfort in the fact that the girls are spontaneous and identical (hence not a result of having just come off the pill) and therefore not a result of my efforts. It just diminishes the guilt a little of needing so much financial and other help from friends, family and strangers. I know that you never go looking (well, at least I don´t think so) for a HOM pregnancy, and that the if, when and how many of pregnancy depends on God, but it helps me to know that I couldn´t have done anything differently to avoid this. Does that make sense? That being said, in no way do I mean to imply that those of you who required reproductive assistance were negligent or irresponsible. I am speaking strictly about my own situation.
Not having gone through assisted reproduction I didn´t fully appreciate (and I´m sure I still don´t) the sensitivity of this issue, and therefore the sensitivity of terms, until I joined this forum. I can only imagine the heartaches and difficulties you have been through and I want to be as sensitive as possible. I believe your children are just as precious as mine and an even greater miracle, if grades of miracles existed. I appreciate the perspectives of some of you who have posted to the effect that we are all MOMs dealing with the same issues, regardless of how we arrived at this point, and that the fact that our children were spontaneous doesn´t mean we don´t deal with the same problems. Please continue to give us spontaneous moms some slack. We don´t mean to offend, we just arrived at this point from a different perspective.
I have also been made even more aware of the amazing blessing we have in our three healthy daughters. My heart breaks reading the posts of families who have suffered and are suffering such devastating losses and difficulties. My prayers are with them and I pray to be more thankful and less complaining each day.
Thanks for reading.
Dionne
Happily married to Juan Carlos and
mother of:
Gabriela 4 lb
Laura 3 lb 15 oz
Katalina 3 lb 12 oz
Born January 28, 2006 at 34 wks
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mauitripletmom
Fri Mar-16-07 04:42 PM
Member since Dec 15th 2006
38 posts
#264612, "RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective"
In response to Reply # 20
well put dione and cathy and everyone else
IslandTrips
http://lilypie.com>
http://lilypie.com>
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joytimesthree
Fri Mar-16-07 04:36 PM
Member since Jul 19th 2005
867 posts
#264610, "RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective"
In response to Reply # 1
OMG. I sooo have to use that picture!
Our greatest gifts...
Sophia (6lbs 13oz), Samuel (4lbs 7oz), & William (5lb 13oz) born on January 21, 2005 at 36 weeks.
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madmolly
Fri Mar-16-07 12:39 PM
Member since Oct 07th 2005
1320 posts
#264340, "RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective"
In response to Reply # 0
I too am fascinated by spontaneous moms!!! I would love to hear the stories.
I just wanted to remind everyone that this IS a senstive subject so if one term lessons the emotional blow more so than another, why not use it? No skin off anyone's nose, right? Just be gentle with each other. It's a matter of consideration, that's all.
(I didn't see the post that sparked the debate, so I am in no way relating my comments to what occurred.)
Lea
bgg 1/22/06 @ 28.3 weeks
g 6/04 @ 34 weeks
g 7/99
g 6/97
www.thewaywardstork.com
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cdemp
Fri Mar-16-07 12:54 PM
Member since Jul 18th 2005
1019 posts
#264358, "RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective"
In response to Reply # 4
For the most part, I think most HOM moms on tc who conceived spontaneously use the proper term, spontaneous. I have noticed that usually it's new members using the term "natural." I cringe when I see it because I think, "Oh no, she's using the politically incorrect word and doesn't know it yet!" I do, however, object to comments by some members that sound like they don't want to even see the word "spontaneous" posted on this board. Maybe I'm reading those comments wrong; I sure hope I am. -- Gloria
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PA triplets
Fri Mar-16-07 12:44 PM
Member since May 22nd 2006
245 posts
#264345, "RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective"
In response to Reply # 0
I understand where you are coming from about the public's perception of infertility treatments and the naturalness of the children. My kids are IVF babies and they are as natural as any other. However, I disagree about the way new posters are treated when they refer to their children as natural in the first post. They aren't trying to be insensitive, they just don't know it is not politically correct on this board. I certainly had no idea until I posted here.
Several times I have seen a new poster inadvertantly offend others with the term natural in their first post. Then the poor poster is blasted with sarcasm from other posters. That isn't right. They came here for support just like any other triplet mother. It is certainly appropriate to explain nicely that the term spontaneous is preferred here. It is not nice to blast a new person who doesn't know any bettter. If you want your feelings to be respected, don't start out a new poster's experience on this board by hurting her feelings too.
Lori
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madmolly
Fri Mar-16-07 12:48 PM
Member since Oct 07th 2005
1320 posts
#264349, "RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective"
In response to Reply # 6
I understand your concerns. Again, I didn't see the thread that sparked the debate. I just wanted to remind everyone why it is that some infertility moms become defensive.
Lea
bgg 1/22/06 @ 28.3 weeks
g 6/04 @ 34 weeks
g 7/99
g 6/97
www.thewaywardstork.com
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cdemp
Fri Mar-16-07 12:57 PM
Member since Jul 18th 2005
1019 posts
#264364, "RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective"
In response to Reply # 6
Lori,
This is exactly what I've noticed as well. It's usually newbies who don't know the proper term.
Gloria
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mandlzn
Fri Mar-16-07 01:17 PM
Member since Aug 04th 2006
49 posts
#264393, "RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective"
In response to Reply # 0
I was one of the newbies that got blasted when we first posted looking for support. Someone was kind enough to email us privately and fill us in on the "politically correct" term. It is shocking enough to have your world turned upside down but then to look for help and be berated!!
I'm sorry that your babies "remind you of your failure" to paraphrase. I have a 24 hour reminder that someone (god, allah, buddha, whatever you believe) thought that I was the right person to handle this. The many nights spent crying and the many afternoons spent frustrated and tired, are enough to make me think they were wrong.
I'll finish by saying that spontaneous triplets don't sleep throught the night any earlier, don't cry less often, don't teethe any better. There is still spit up, colds, sleepless nights, bowls of pureed carrots thrown on the floor. We still get funny looks when we go out, still drag three into the peds office with any combination of them screaming.
But we all have three times the hugs, laughs, faces to kiss goodnight.We are all in the same boat regardless of how we got here. Let's just get through this together.
Lisa
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madmolly
Fri Mar-16-07 01:25 PM
Member since Oct 07th 2005
1320 posts
#264404, "RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective"
In response to Reply # 12
I will refrain from harsh and hurtful words and instead I will merely state that you incorrectly paraphrased my words. I do not see my babies as a 24 hour a day reminder of my failure. In fact, quite the opposite. I see them as a reminder of my infertility struggles. I was successful in my endeavours. Truly, very successful.
A little respect is all I am saying. I didn't blast you then and I will be above your comments this time around as well. Catch me on another day, my friend, when I am in the mood to tango!
Lea
bgg 1/22/06 @ 28.3 weeks
g 6/04 @ 34 weeks
g 7/99
g 6/97
www.thewaywardstork.com
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jonib
Fri Mar-16-07 01:26 PM
Member since Oct 11th 2005
189 posts
#264408, "RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective"
In response to Reply # 12
>
>I'm sorry that your babies "remind you of your failure" to
>paraphrase. I have a 24 hour reminder that someone (god,
>allah, buddha, whatever you believe) thought that I was the
>right person to handle this. The many nights spent crying and
>the many afternoons spent frustrated and tired, are enough to
>make me think they were wrong.
easy....your quoted paraphrasing is not at all what she said...and I'll quote "However you look at it, I have a 24 hour a day reminder of my infertility struggles"
she said struggles, you said failure...no wonder why it's such a sensitive topic...
>
>
Jonib
mom to
Abby
Andy
Caroline
33 weeks 11/20/05
Rhett 9
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bsebllmom9
Fri Mar-16-07 01:28 PM
Member since Jul 18th 2005
2068 posts
#264411, "RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective"
In response to Reply # 12
>I was one of the newbies that got blasted when we first
>posted looking for support. Someone was kind enough to email
>us privately and fill us in on the "politically correct" term.
>It is shocking enough to have your world turned upside down
>but then to look for help and be berated!!
>
>I'm sorry that your babies "remind you of your failure" to
>paraphrase. I have a 24 hour reminder that someone (god,
>allah, buddha, whatever you believe) thought that I was the
>right person to handle this. The many nights spent crying and
>the many afternoons spent frustrated and tired, are enough to
>make me think they were wrong.
>
>I'll finish by saying that spontaneous triplets don't sleep
>throught the night any earlier, don't cry less often, don't
>teethe any better. There is still spit up, colds, sleepless
>nights, bowls of pureed carrots thrown on the floor. We still
>get funny looks when we go out, still drag three into the peds
>office with any combination of them screaming.
>
>But we all have three times the hugs, laughs, faces to kiss
>goodnight.We are all in the same boat regardless of how we got
>here. Let's just get through this together.
>
>Lisa
reply with quote works much better than trying to remember what someone says...try it next time!
Michelle
Ty~1-2-91~ 16
Steph~11-19-92~ 14
Ayden, Ryley, Dylan~33wk2d~11-16-04~ 2
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/a/aydenryleydylan/
http://www.walkamerica.org/stuckeytriplets
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Sunshinebabies3
Fri Mar-16-07 01:30 PM
Member since Jan 28th 2006
604 posts
#264414, "RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective"
In response to Reply # 12
LEA I LOVE YOU! I didnt even know there was a debate thread. But this subject is so raw for me. I actually had some one ask me "Are your kids legitmate? you know, God given?" So either I had to call my children bastards or say that they were not a gift from god b/c I used fertility treatments...SHEESH!
And you are right spontaneous moms do relate to the actual motherhood piece but not to the total experience that we had due to infertility. Many fertile people think that once an infertile woman has a baby/babies, the pain of infertility dies, but that is SO UNTRUE. In fact, most of us carry that pain for the rest of our lives. We feel betrayed by our own bodies and while it is better than before we had kids, it is still hard. Most people are also unaware that infertility carries a depression rate that rivals AIDS & Cancer patients.
On top of all of that, when our kids are in isolettes with tubes going everywhere or when they are in 15 different kinds of therapy, we feel GUILTY b/c we feel that our physical inadequacy (the inability to get pregnant with out meds/treatments) somehow caused our children to suffer. Again, this is unique to infertility patient HOM's.
So--in some ways, we have a great deal in common. In others, we are worlds a part. Neither is better or worse. We are just different. And acting as though we aren't is silly and a waste of time and energy.
Owner:Cutie Tooties Cloth Diapers
www.cutietooties.com
YES! You can cloth diaper TRIPLETS!
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kylamel
Fri Mar-16-07 01:38 PM
Member since Jul 18th 2005
1478 posts
#264428, "RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective"
In response to Reply # 16
The troubling thing with forums like this is that people "read into" what another person wrote. Spoken word is clearer. There are times when a person can misread a post or read a post when they are in a bad mood and take an innocent post the "wrong way" (which is what happened that sparked this whole "natural/unnatural" cluster of topics).
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bsebllmom9
Fri Mar-16-07 01:40 PM
Member since Jul 18th 2005
2068 posts
#264433, "RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective"
In response to Reply # 16
>>On top of all of that, when our kids are in isolettes with tubes going everywhere or when they are in 15 different kinds of therapy, we feel GUILTY b/c we feel that our physical inadequacy (the inability to get pregnant with out meds/treatments) somehow caused our children to suffer. Again, this is unique to infertility patient HOM's.<<
Actually spontaneous triplets can have the same preemie issues and start out their lives just like ART babies, so that doesn't make a difference...it's luck of the draw! That's just a mother's feeling, not a IF mom feeling.
Michelle
Ty~1-2-91~ 16
Steph~11-19-92~ 14
Ayden, Ryley, Dylan~33wk2d~11-16-04~ 2
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/a/aydenryleydylan/
http://www.walkamerica.org/stuckeytriplets
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sushannah
Fri Mar-16-07 03:53 PM
Member since Jul 18th 2005
207 posts
#264541, "RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective"
In response to Reply # 19
You are right that all preemies share the same problems. BUT when I was in the hospital just trying to make it to 29 weeks, the thought that kept going through my mind was 'what have *I* done, in my quest to have a baby have I put their health in jeopardy?'
Sushannah and Stephen
parents to:
Olivia, Maggie, and Sam
born at 31 weeks
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JesTrips
Fri Mar-16-07 02:38 PM
Member since Jul 18th 2005
1212 posts
#264444, "RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective"
In response to Reply # 16
I also felt a lot of guilt in the beginning because my body had done something that created a lot of financial stress on our family.
I am sure my hormones played a big part in that and I am in no way saying what I felt was the same as you - but it isn't all sunshine and rainbows for us either (at least it wasn't for me).
"
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mandlzn
Fri Mar-16-07 02:44 PM
Member since Aug 04th 2006
49 posts
#264451, "RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective"
In response to Reply # 23
I'm sorry that my reply was upsetting to some of you. It was not intended to be. Please reread the last few thoughts. They are truly my feelings about this site. I'm glad to have found it.
In choose not to tango with you. That is not why I post on this board.
Instead, could you tell me how to get Olivia to skip her middle of the night bottle?
I guess that is a whole nother topic so I will post a new thread!!!
Again, not trying to upset anyone just offering my thoughts.
Lisa
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Sunshinebabies3
Fri Mar-16-07 04:28 PM
Member since Jan 28th 2006
604 posts
#264607, "RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective"
In response to Reply # 26
oh SHEESH! I seriously think we come from different planets...or maybe people just dont take the time to read before responding.
I KNOW that all triplets/preemies can have tubes...BUT Infertility moms feel R-E-S-P-O-N-S-I-B-L-E b/c we went through treatment that knowingly ups the risks of multiples which in so doing knowingly ups the risk of premature birth & complications. It is different.
Owner:Cutie Tooties Cloth Diapers
www.cutietooties.com
YES! You can cloth diaper TRIPLETS!
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bsebllmom9
Fri Mar-16-07 04:38 PM
Member since Jul 18th 2005
2068 posts
#264611, "RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective"
In response to Reply # 30
WHAT???? I did everything I could to get pregnant. I did everything I could to keep my pregnancy going. I did everything I could to get my babies as far as I could. I did everything I could period. I have no regrets! I didn't do IVF to up my chance of having lots of babies. I did IVF to have A baby! I was blessed 3 times over. Actually if you want to be technical, I was blessed twice and then one decided to bless me again by splitting.
So don't say only infertility mothers feel responsible for how their kids turned out because we did drugs to create them. Spontaneous moms can do everything right and have the same outcome and can feel the guilt for having premature or even micro preemie babies. Guilt is guilt no matter what side you're on!
Michelle
Ty~1-2-91~ 16
Steph~11-19-92~ 14
Ayden, Ryley, Dylan~33wk2d~11-16-04~ 2
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/a/aydenryleydylan/
http://www.walkamerica.org/stuckeytriplets
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foreveramom
Fri Mar-16-07 01:39 PM
Member since Jan 30th 2006
721 posts
#264431, "RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective"
In response to Reply # 0
Everybody knows that IVF babies have no souls. JK
But seriously, that whole "were you blessed or did you have help?" twists my ovaries.
Technically, since mine are (to use the politically terribly incorrect term) a PAIR AND A SPARE, mine were both IVF miracles and spontaneous miracles.
Oh, I know... I can explain to strangers, "well, I was blessed with one of these, but we did drugs to get the other two." They'll walk away scratching their heads.
Lesa
Mom to: Kristi - 20, USAF, wife & mom **Kevin - 18, a Chemical Engineering Honor Student at USF **Kelli - 16, Principal's Honor Roll student **Angus - 4, beautiful redhead **Ruca, Nadia, Max - 2, GGB triplets www.angusandthetriplets.com
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madmolly
Fri Mar-16-07 02:29 PM
Member since Oct 07th 2005
1320 posts
#264436, "RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective"
In response to Reply # 18
I like that!!! LOL! Thanks for the giggles!
Lea
bgg 1/22/06 @ 28.3 weeks
g 6/04 @ 34 weeks
g 7/99
g 6/97
www.thewaywardstork.com
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gkm15099
Fri Mar-16-07 02:38 PM
Member since Feb 24th 2007
60 posts
#264443, "RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective"
In response to Reply # 18
Lesa,
The more you post, the more I absolutely love your outlook on life. Keep giving us all a little perspective.
Kimberly,
Mom to Isabelle, Alyssa, and Makenna
www.guinnfamilyhome.com
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jonib
Fri Mar-16-07 02:40 PM
Member since Oct 11th 2005
189 posts
#264446, "RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective"
In response to Reply # 18
>Everybody knows that IVF babies have no souls. JK
>
>I KNEW IT!!! I knew my RE added evil to the petri dish! that a@# hole!!
Jonib
mom to
Abby
Andy
Caroline
33 weeks 11/20/05
Rhett 9
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madmolly
Fri Mar-16-07 02:44 PM
Member since Oct 07th 2005
1320 posts
#264450, "RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective"
In response to Reply # 24
ROFLMAO!!! Your guys are too funny!
Lea
bgg 1/22/06 @ 28.3 weeks
g 6/04 @ 34 weeks
g 7/99
g 6/97
www.thewaywardstork.com
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3isamagicnumber
Fri Mar-16-07 03:26 PM
Member since Jul 18th 2005
59 posts
#264506, "RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective"
In response to Reply # 0
I just want you to know that for me you hit the nail right on the head. I have had a difficult time trying to come to terms with my I am offended by the word "natural" or why there needs to be any differentiation between spontaneous and IVF or IUI or pill or other (just in case I left something out) if we are all indeed in the same boat. I think the original intent was that any couple who has struggled with infertility has to deal with the many issues you have outlined. Bravo to you and the next time someone asks me in public or in private and I don't feel like sharing- I am handing them a copy of your post!
3 Is A Magic Number! Mother of
3 bbb born 3/23/05 at 32 w 3days
gestation. 2@3lbs15oz &
2lbs13oz
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Tracey
Fri Mar-16-07 03:45 PM
Member since Jul 18th 2005
1820 posts
#264529, "Question"
In response to Reply # 0
This is something I've wanted to know for eight years on participating on TC. Why is it acceptable to annotate "IV #X or clomid #X", but not to 'shout from the rooftops' (thanks, Gina!) it's a "natural/spontaneous" trio? It's a bit hypocritical to hold some to different standards.
For those of you who endured the IF path, you never had the devastation of being told it's triplets when you were alreay 'finished' having children--or DH not speaking to you b/c he didn't plan on another baby/babies. You were forewarned of the 2-5% likelihood of a HOM pregnancy. Nobody every told me of the .000125% chance of having three with a blissful night's 'conversation'. That's not written in any marriage pamphlet that I've ever read!
We can agree that we all love our children and know that we're abundantly blessed regardless of how our families were achieved (let's not forget adoption,foster care and exchange programs)! Each story is treasured and valued if only to ourselves. Not a single story is identical, but we need to look into the hearts of each woman and know that her comments (I did IFV, clomid, had sex, etc) are special to HER and we should all value them, despite the differences.
Tracey
Michael (10)
Francesca (9)
Matthew, Alexis & Gabrielle (7)
Torunn (Norwegian DD,19)
Johannes (upcoming German DS,15)
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boomom
Fri Mar-16-07 04:29 PM
Member since Jul 18th 2005
1357 posts
#264608, "RE: Question"
In response to Reply # 28
Fri Mar-16-07 04:32 PM by boomom
"Nobody every told me of the .000125% chance of having three with a blissful night's 'conversation'. That's not written in any marriage pamphlet that I've ever read!"
I'm peein' Tracey!!!!!!!! Dh has been implying all day that we should have a 'conversation' tonight! At least he isn't asking for an 'all-day-conversation'! ROFLMBO!!!!!!!!
Edited to add: ALTHOUGH........an 'all-day-conversation' would be just dandy in a warm, tropical climate after a lazy day on the beach with kids being THOUSANDS of miles away....ROFLMBO!!!! Or should I say RO-the beach?
Gina
G 12yo
BGG(Down Syndrome)9yo
"You will know sorrow like few others and yet you will know joy above joy. You will meet dirty faced angels on playgrounds who are kind to your child without being told to be." Susan F. Rzucidlo
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Teentrips3
Fri Mar-16-07 04:58 PM
Member since Jul 19th 2005
5 posts
#264624, "RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective"
In response to Reply # 0
"A little bit of sensitivity goes a long way. Spontaneous moms don’t have the same experiences that fertility moms do. I would not expect a spontaneous mom to completely understand. I would, however, expect them to respect the feelings of others"
I wouldn't expect a fertility mom to completely understand a spontaneous triplet "experience" either. I also would expect them to respect the feelings of others.
Having spontaneous triplets is like hitting the baby lottery. I am extremely proud of my story just as you are proud of yours.Now imagine the brand new mommy, with hormones raging etc..etc..She wants to tell the world about HER children, not all the multiple pregnancies in the world.
I get all the same questions STILL! and mine are almost seventeen. Whether you like it or not, the first question after 'how did you manage' is usually 'were they natural'.
Because I no longer have the energy to educate the world, I reply "yes, they were spontaneous" and let it go at that.The time it takes them to look up that term gives me just enough time to ESCAPE.
No hard feelings to the fertility mommies. Just another pov.
Tami
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madmolly
Fri Mar-16-07 05:06 PM
Member since Oct 07th 2005
1320 posts
#264625, "RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective"
In response to Reply # 35
Was I disrespectful to anyone regarding this topic? You used a quote from my post as if I directly wronged someone. Did I? I thought I was attempting to explain to the spontaneous moms why the terms can be hurtful. That's it. Get off my nuts.
BTW, I feel as though I hit the baby lottery as well. My chances of pregnancy AT ALL from that cycle was less than 5%. I love the stats people like to toss out! LOL! (That's was in reply to another poster, just too lazy to go find her post! LOL!)
Lea
bgg 1/22/06 @ 28.3 weeks
g 6/04 @ 34 weeks
g 7/99
g 6/97
www.thewaywardstork.com
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JesTrips
Fri Mar-16-07 05:23 PM
Member since Jul 18th 2005
1212 posts
#264633, "RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective"
In response to Reply # 36
Down Molly!
I think that was a general statement - not directed at you. I think what you posted was very well written and explain your pov very well. You didn't even get on a soap box.
"
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madmolly
Fri Mar-16-07 05:29 PM
Member since Oct 07th 2005
1320 posts
#264637, "RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective"
In response to Reply # 38
Yes, but do I qualify as a Schmuck? That's all I wanna know..
Lea
bgg 1/22/06 @ 28.3 weeks
g 6/04 @ 34 weeks
g 7/99
g 6/97
www.thewaywardstork.com
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JesTrips
Fri Mar-16-07 05:37 PM
Member since Jul 18th 2005
1212 posts
#264640, "RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective"
In response to Reply # 39
Yes you qualify. In fact will you be my SILF?
"
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foreveramom
Fri Mar-16-07 05:41 PM
Member since Jan 30th 2006
721 posts
#264642, "RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective"
ROFLMAO
Lesa
Mom to: Kristi - 20, USAF, wife & mom **Kevin - 18, a Chemical Engineering Honor Student at USF **Kelli - 16, Principal's Honor Roll student **Angus - 4, beautiful redhead **Ruca, Nadia, Max - 2, GGB triplets www.angusandthetriplets.com
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madmolly
Fri Mar-16-07 05:41 PM
Member since Oct 07th 2005
1320 posts
#264643, "RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective"
In response to Reply # 40
I have assumed the position!
Lea
bgg 1/22/06 @ 28.3 weeks
g 6/04 @ 34 weeks
g 7/99
g 6/97
www.thewaywardstork.com
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Tracey
Fri Mar-16-07 05:41 PM
Member since Jul 18th 2005
1820 posts
#264641, "RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective"
In response to Reply # 36
"Get off my nuts."
Is this anatomically possible?
Tracey
Michael (10)
Francesca (9)
Matthew, Alexis & Gabrielle (7)
Torunn (Norwegian DD,19)
Johannes (upcoming German DS,15)
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hergrace42
Fri Mar-16-07 05:20 PM
Member since Dec 29th 2006
48 posts
#264631, "RE: Spontaneous Vs Natural from an IVF perspective"
In response to Reply # 35
I am one of those people who hadn't the slightest clue about how to be sensitive in my vocabulary until I came to this board. I also didn't realize until I had done research on fetal reduction that HOM pregnancies are seen as a failure by many fertility clinics.
I did know that infertility is a huge emotional toil to live through. I do my best to be sensitive to the fact that all I know about others' experiences is what they choose to share with me. Every time I hear an IVF story, I learn more about the range of experiences people have.
I am always surprised when the doctors and staff that I am seeing during this pregnancy ask if they were natural. And it happens a lot. My heart goes out to those of you who are hurt by this use of language.
Kate A-R
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